Thu 26 Apr 2007
No Juden
Posted by eph under Mary Jane Hitler at 6:55 pm
Rob. S from Reston, Virginia is Julia’s 33 year-old creepy boyfriend. Think that “creepy” is not a fair description?
Think again. Here is his Friendster page.
Worse part? How about this:
Who I Want to Meet:
i like smart, cute, pale, sweet girls
please no djs, ravers, juden
Or maybe this cartoon?
Thanks to an anonymous tipster. More details welcome. I agree with HWC that Rob’s threats against Noah give Williams a perfect excuse to ban him from campus. He should be prevented from ever setting foot on Williams property again. Julia should be informed of his status and told that inviting him on campus, much less into her dorm, would lead to her own expulsion as well.
Julia can say anything she wants. I, and others, will defend her, no matter how hateful her opinions might be. (And I have yet to offer my own views on the posters.) But she has no right to invite a Nazi [Or, at least someone who doesn’t like “juden.” — ed. Whatever.] who has threaten a Williams student with violence on to campus. Ban him.
UPDATE: This post originally included two pictures of Rob and a cartoon with strange Swastika-like symbol, all retrieved from his now-closed Friendster page. Rob has noted that these images are his property and that we have no right to use them without his permission. He is correct. We mistakenly assumed, since the images were on a public Friendster page, that they were in the public domain. EphBlog regrets the error.
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64 Responses to “No Juden”
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Diana says:
Julia’s friendster page — linked from Rob’s because she left a comment about him — provides the first actual pictures of Julia found thus far in this event (since she doesn’t have a picture on WSO and is not on Facebook).
April 26th, 2007 at 7:29 pmAnonymous says:
Also funny: “norsk and indo-european culture” listed in interests.
It seems that he is the owner of the anonhost.org site, and also owns a bunch of other fun crackpot web sites (linked from the front page) – the owner is registered as residing in McLean, VA, which is very close to Reston, and anonhost.org does not actually seem to provide hosting services to the public.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:32 pmDavid R says:
This entire saga grows more ridiculous by the second. Let me be to one of the firsts to say, uh… what? Seriously? Wow. The guy has got some serious issues.
But I think to myself: I really enjoy when people are as honest with their beliefs as this guy seems to be. Unless this is just some really poorly executed “joke”, of course.
At least now students know to disassociate themselves with this clown. I only worry that Ms. Mary Jane Hitler has been dragged into this whole saga somewhat against her will. He won’t feel the consequences of his actions, but she certainly continues to feel the pressure from this whole mess.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:48 pmephmom says:
From Julia’s page: “Hobbies and Interests: shakespeare, art, running, hot tubs, misanthropy, alcohol, elitism, sushi, breaking hearts, petty vandalism, drinking water, propaganda, greeting cards, white people”
The college might also want to look into why it took her 5 years to graduate from high school (she says she attended 2000-2005). Since she had met “Rob” by 2003 and says she is now 19, that would have made her 15 — and him 29. Maybe he helped her acquire her “hobbies” of “misanthropy … petty vandalism … and propaganda …”
April 26th, 2007 at 7:52 pmAnonymous says:
Um, any chance this is all schtick?
April 26th, 2007 at 8:04 pmephmom says:
hwc: I guess the college can’t catch every bad apple. Julia kept her views under wraps just long enough to make it through the Admission process. I wonder if Dick Nesbitt can find anything in her application that would constitute fraud.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:09 pmfrank uible says:
No Juden? A lot of Jewish mommas say no shiksas for my son.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:52 pmLoweeel says:
I seem to remember another problem involving a much older boyfriend when I was on campus, who was the unfortunate victim of wholly concocted allegations of sexual assault and assault and battery by a crazy girl who stabbed herself in the thigh so that she could blame it on him.
Maybe there’s just something about frosh/soph girls on campus dating much older men off campus that should raise the nutjob flag.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pmephmom says:
“provides the first actual pictures of Julia found thus far in this event”
Someone has now removed her picture.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:23 pmAnonymous says:
It’s amazing how ignorant you are. That picture is an has an ethnic symbol that predated the nazi regime. You people really have no lives.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:26 pmhwc says:
So, with Julia’s interest’s including “white people” and her Idiot Boyfriend ™ favoring Indo-Christian culture and excluding “juden”, I guess we can now assume that the postering of Williams College with Hitler posters was indeed a statement of pure, unadulterated bigotry.
No wonder she hasn’t apologized.
Yep. It’s difficult if the high school is complicit or less than forthcoming. No matter what, you have to figure you are going to get a couple of loonies out of 500 freshmen each year.
Forget what I said about feeling sorry for her. I feel sorry for Morty. He will obviously get a restraining order against the Idiot Boyfriend ™ and arrest him if he sets foot on campus property. If I were Morty, I would very seriously consider taking the heat and telling Julia that Williams College does not have a place on its campus for that kind of bigotry. It’s a tough situation.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pm04 says:
Under favorite bands, Rob has “burzum” listed — a band whose lead singer only denied being a Nazi because he is not a “socialist.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum
April 26th, 2007 at 10:28 pm04 says:
was anyone smart enough to snatch up a screenshot of julia’s friendster page before she took it down?
April 26th, 2007 at 10:29 pm04 says:
Is it to early to start speculating on “how did julia get into williams?” given the potential this has to embarrass the school, i think the admissions committee is probably the most red-faced.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:34 pmBen Fleming says:
Also, Rob’s fave books include the masterpiece of the neo-facist Italian Julius Evola, a big-time Nazi sympathizer; a book by one of Hitler’s faves, Schopenhauer; and what appears to be Qadhafi’s tome on democracy. For music, he digs Absurd (Nazi metal band).
But hey, anyone who likes “Waking Life” can’t be all bad.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:39 pm04 says:
ben, it is an established fact that richard linklater is a nazi. or rather, he would be, but he’s not a “socialist.”
April 26th, 2007 at 10:48 pmdisgusted says:
What has been the most upsetting thing about this event for me has been the reactions of people like you. Are these really the people that graduate from Williams? You don’t know Julia. You don’t know Rob. And frankly it is down right disgusting that the best thing you think you can do with your time is to create elaborate theories about how creepy they are. Williams claims to be a place that fosters diversty, and yet there are graduates like you who are willing to rip to shreds a girl you don’t even know just because she doesn’t seem to fit your idea of a model human being. That’s just pathetic. If you knew Julia, had ever talked to her, you wouldn’t be wondering how she got into Williams. She is a smart and caring person. She has run intellectual circles around everyone who has entered into this debate. And that five years in high school stuff? I can think of plenty of athletic tips at Williams who took five years, or more, to graduate high school and no one is questioning how they got into Williams. Julia got in because she deserves to be here. And it would be really neat if people would stop making uninformed and completely biased and ridiculous accusations about her. If you look for signs that she is a Nazi you will find them, but I think that is true of a lot of people. But if you had ever talked to her you would know that all of this is biased beyond belief. I haven’t heard of one person who actually knows her who sees this act as a sign of “pure, unadulterated bigotry.”
I have been more offeneded by the hate uttered on these pages towards Julia than by the “hate” (aka parody) of the Hitler posters. The uninformed judgment is just repulsive.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pmum says:
There are plenty of people who question how certain “Tips” got into Williams.
“I think that is true of a lot of people”? I think the evidence is stacking up against Rob; if he doesn’t want to have people think him a Nazi, then he should put some more thought into what he puts out on the Internet for people to see.
“Running intellectual circles”? I hardly see how that is true. What, by citing SCOTUS decisions that are wholly irrelevant? (My favorite was her trying to prove that parody is protected speech. Well, it is… but only if she was going to get sued by the JRC for ‘parodying’ their posters). And while some of the response on this site has been virulent, I really cannot see how Julia has managed to quell criticism.
Perhaps many people here are jumping to conclusion, but Ms. Julia has done very, very little to defend herself and her actions; even her posts on WSO are non-committal.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:24 pmRichard Dunn says:
“Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love.” (MLK)
Rob is old enough to take full responsibility for his views and I could care less about him.
Julia is obviously talented in many ways and obviously also did a stupid, hurtful thing. We all do stupid, hurtful things. Mostly we restrain ourselves to individuals or small groups rather than entire religions or campus communities.
She is clearly on the defensive and isn’t going to apologize until the dust settles a little bit. Maybe after the summer.
Maybe everything about this and her friendster page was meant to provoke. Just to piss people off for the sake of doing it. Maybe she isn’t a bigot, just young and stupid.
I actually hope Williams will be a place where she grows into a better, more compassionate, more empathic person. If she posted pictures of Hitler, its clear that she has a ways to go in this regard.
I hope she learns pissing people off just for the sake of it doesn’t make her smart or witty or morally superior. I hope someone at Williams helps her learn these lessons. If not at Williams, I hope she learns them somewhere before an otherwise promising life is wasted in arrogance and ignorance.
As talented as she may be, Williams doesn’t need her. She is as replaceable there as any of us. Williams doesn’t need her, but if Williams is as transformative as we think it is, then maybe she needs Williams.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmhwc says:
When someone papers a campus with Hitler posters in direct response to Holocaust Remembrance Day, the operative assumption has to start with “pure, unadulterated bigotry”.
Bong Hits 4 Hitler Julia and her Idiot Boyfriend ™ have done NOTHING to counter that operative assumption. In fact, their own friendspace pages strongly reinforce the assumption of unadulterated bigotry.
As I have been pointing out for several days, Julia needs to take some steps to correct this assumption if it is not true.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pmRichard Dunn says:
Of course, maybe she is just a downright anti-semetic bigot and those of us who aren’t don’t really owe her a pot to pee in or a place to throw it.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:48 pmhwc says:
Famous Wesleyan grad, Bill Belichick, has a saying that probably applies to this situation: “It is what it is.”
April 26th, 2007 at 11:51 pmum says:
Exactly my point; Ms. Julia doesn’t seem to realize that silence works against her. Richard has a point — perhaps their friendster pages were touched up to mock us blog-jockeys. Maybe she just fancies herself a world-class satirist, but if her joking is meant to be satire, it is failing miserably.
Had those posters actually been funny, I might have a bit more sympathy for the devil…
April 26th, 2007 at 11:52 pmRichard Dunn says:
I agree HWC. All signs point a certain way.
I don’t have kids of my own and all analogies are flawed, but right now I feel like we are screaming at a child waiting for him to admit he broke his brother’s favorite toy. Worse, we suspect he did it on purpose.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:56 pmMaybe it was an accident, but he is so scared that admitting he broke it is admitting to doing it on purpose, that he’d rather insist he never touched the thing at all.
At this point, don’t you step away, say you are disappointed, and wait. Screaming louder and louder doesn’t do any good.
Again, all analogies are flawed and I am hoping for something, anything, positive to come of this, both for the campus and this girl.
johnatrisk says:
I agree with disgusted. Nothing online has made me more ashamed to have graduated from Williams than this elitist screed about who “proper” Williams students should be dating (obviously “people more like us”) and the obsessive deconstruction of her boyfriend’s interests. Nothing except the oh so snidely redacted blatant accusation of Nazism on the front of the blog. If it’s wrong, why didn’t you just delete it. I shouldn’t be allowed to call someone a child molester, and then put a line through it and then say I’m sorry, it’s fixed even though everyone can still read it. Pathetic and childish doesn’t begin to cover it. Right now I couldn’t be happier that I moved far from this insular northeastern community of ersatz libertarians who cringe at the thought of contacting someone different, dumber, and perhaps less privileged. This combined with the hypocrisy of the CLC witch hunt has lowered the discourse here to new lows. I’m going to spend my time elsewhere, maybe reading about World Bank poverty efforts, or how to rebuild New Orleans, or maybe just sleeping. It sure beats endless discussions on the rationale for a college-wide restraining order on someone who said they’d beat up anyone that called them a Nazi. Or maybe you’d like to take out a restraining order against much of North Adams’ hockey team…I certainly heard them tell Williams students that they’d “beat them up” if they ever saw them again.
Nice of you though to post a picture and then label it “creepy.” Total class. Or haven’t you graduated from high school yet?
April 26th, 2007 at 11:57 pmAnonymous says:
1) Both friendster pages have been edited substantially. I’m guessing the materials cited above were not intended as “satire” and were instead “incriminating.”
2) To “disgusted”, not all diversity is valuable. Bigots contribute nothing of value to campus.
3) To Richard Dunn: I doubt anyone would grow more compassionate from this episode. I would hate to be in Julia’s position and I think all the criticism will further cement her beliefs. Not that I think that the criticism is in any way unjustified, but no one should fool themselves into thinking the expression of moral outrage has a pedagogical purpose.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:08 amhwc says:
I know. But…at the end of the day, she is an adult.
I’ve given her serious, well-intentioned, good advice several times over the last few days. I know she’s reading this blog, so she’s seen my advice.
I would be surprised if I am the only one reaching out to her. I’d bet that Schapiro or Roseman have had somebody from counseling try to contact her.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:12 amAnonymous says:
Julia is not an uninformed bigot, and the reason she has done nothing to “quell criticism” is probably that she doesn’t care what complete strangers say about her. But I do. And not so much because of how cruel it is to Julia, but because of what it says about the people who are spewing this hate towards her. Seriously do you have no one else who you don’t know at all to direct all of this biased unnecessary hate towards? It is upsetting to see that people seem to feel a need to be so self-righteous at the expense of others. Stop speculating about a person you don’t know, and take the word of people who do know her. Julia is not a Nazi. I know that she has invited discussion of her actions, and by all means discuss it. But the personal attacks at her character are unnecessary. Have a little decency and stop judging a person that you don’t know at all. If you want to judge her actions, that is your perogative. Everyone knows about them. But no matter how many internet searches you do, you can’t know Julia unless you meet her. And until you do, it is my opinion that it is unfitting behavior of a Williams grad to pass high-handed and unjustified judgement on her character.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:13 amhwc says:
If you care about Julia, you should go get her and walk her over to couseling or do something else proactive to intervene in a positive way.
She needs to understand that continuing to ride her high horse after papering a campus with Hitler posters is not going to work for her.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:18 amtruly disgusted and sorry that disgusting person ever thought of applying to Williams says:
Here’s how decent and caring our Julia is (from WSO):
Noah: “now i am receiving threats of violence from your boyfriend.
please, that is wrong.”
from Julia:
“Noah, I have no control over how Rob feels about what you said. You chose to post something you don’t even know is true. If you’d like verification, call my room phone or come find me. You’ve shown what a ridiculous obsessive nut you are, no matter how insensitive I may be. Since you don’t mind feeding the gossip mill about me you should also not be surprised that my boyfriend will feel protective over things that you lightly toss around on WSO. These are details of my personal life that you’re sifting through trying to justify your idea that I’m a bigot. But I wasn’t telling you to remove your claim, and I won’t ask Rob to remove his response to your accusation.”
She is truly despicable, and I hope she gets what she deserves.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:25 amspace says:
Richard Dunn, you weren’t replaceable at Williams. Remember ECON 101 when you single handedly saved all of us when two of the other unmentioned TAs were oblivious and helpless?
The one thing I worry about is that this story is likely to haunt Julia for years to come. Most competent potential employers Google their prospective hires and the fact that the top result links her with posters celebrating Hitler could cause her not to be hired.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:29 amrahul says:
In my experiences with Julia, she was friendly, nice and polite. Granted I don’t know her very well, but I find it hard to believe that she is highly bigoted or something. Dunno. She was never rude to me or anything like that and she usually greeted me if she saw me around campus, which is more than most Williams students do. And I’m not white. Not by a far stretch. Then again, someone may say she didn’t have a problem with me because I was indo-european, but whatever. I think she’s pretty nice, and I don’t think this incident will change that.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:32 amRichard Dunn says:
Thanks “space”, hopefully I can include your post in my job applications next year as a teaching rec.
Yeah, Julia is kinda screwed in so many ways because this has become so public. It is a pretty important lesson for everyone. Think before you act or speak because actions and words can last forever now. It also means we have to be more accepting and forgiving with indiscretions. Even huge muss ups like this one. Again, I am optimistic this evening (it won’t last) and really hope she is just young and stupid because there is no forgiving bigotry.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:37 amIronic Justice says:
Welcome to the internet, anonymous. It’s petty, silly, and entertaining in a trashy kind of way. And if you do dumb things they might get discussed here.
Let’s save our pity for the innocent suffering, eh?
April 27th, 2007 at 12:39 amdisgusted says:
If you’re going to call her despicable, then you don’t get to call her “our” Julia. If you don’t know her, and your only evidence is a post on WSO (which doesn’t even support your point that well in my opinion), then I don’t think you should call her despicable.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:50 amThink about what you are spending your time doing. You all presumably have lives outside of ephblog, but you are spending your time passing judgements on a sophomore in college that you don’t know. How is that in any way a useful thing for anyone? How does that help? Go be the productive members of society that Williams prepared you to be, and stop making untrue accusations about the character of Julia. This cruelty is a waste of your time because it is not fixing anything.
Walker says:
“This cruelty is a waste of your time because it is not fixing anything.”
On the contrary, the student reaction to this event could very well “fix” something (depending on your definition of fixing) if the college decides to take actions against Julia and Rob, whatever those might be (from declining to accept Julia back in the fall or some other disciplinary measure to securing a ban on Rob being allowed on campus). Given the threats of violence by one member of that duo and the general hostility (not just physical) and condescension of both, many people would see disciplinary action as just the fix that’s necessary.
Cheers.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:54 amAnonymous says:
I’m not pitying Julia. I’m pitying the people who find it “petty, silly, and entertaining in a trashy sort of way” to say incredibly hurtful and unfounded things about a person they never met, without considering for a second the impact that will have.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:57 amAnd I agree that if you do dumb things they might get discussed here. But that’s exactly my point. This isn’t a discussion of “things” and it hasn’t been for a while. It has turned into a discussion, no a rant, about a person. That is a big difference.
doubly disgusted says:
“If you don’t know her, and your only evidence is a post on WSO”
There’s lots of “evidence” of character that’s sorely deficient, left all around the Internet by your less-than-lovely “friend.” And if you truly cared anything about her — or anyone else at Williams — you’d be “helping” her, not anonymous posters on EphBlog.
Might I remind you of your “friend”‘s own words, critical of the original posters, from April 15th:
“Certainly a bit more thought would have produced something much more constructive.”
Yes, it certainly would have.
April 27th, 2007 at 1:00 amLoweeel says:
I don’t think it would be wise for the College to do anything against Julia, as it would contravene their own policies and just seems unwarranted.
I think it’s the lesson of the dunce-cap, which we’ve unfortunately gotten away from in recent decades. Social shaming can be far more effective than anything the college can or even would do. Disciplining her further at this point is somewhere between kicking after she’s thrown herself down and rubbing salt in her self-inflicted wounds.
April 27th, 2007 at 1:12 amWalker says:
I agree that the college *should* take no disciplinary action against Julia. However, I think in many eyes, that is not the case, hence the “fix”. Rob, however, is a different story entirely.
Cheers.
April 27th, 2007 at 1:14 amdoubly disgusted says:
“Social shaming can be far more effective”
If someone actually has a conscience — or a soul. She has shown neither — nor heart for that matter. Even when she talked about writing her “defense,” she only did it out of fear of losing her privileged position as a student at the college — to cover/save her butt. The only other emotion she showed at the time was defiant anger. She continues to defy all good sense.
I don’t believe Williams needs the liability of a sociopath on its hands.
April 27th, 2007 at 1:58 amJonathan says:
Richard, I agree with your sentiment. You said what I wanted to say, though much more eloquently than I ever could have. When I first saw the posters, I was outraged, and wanted the poster of the posters to suffer the social consequences of her words. After learning more about her, I just feel sad. I hope that something good can come of this whole experience, both for Julia and for the campus.
April 27th, 2007 at 2:15 amhwc says:
That’s a more complicated equation than it might initially seem. While Julia is certainly free to express herself as she sees fit, employers, grad schools, and undergrad colleges (like Williams) are also free to decide that they do not want anti-semitic, Hitler-promoting people in their ranks. There is no constitutional or moral protection of bigotry.
That’s what I was trying to explain to Julia…that no matter how she tries to rationalize it, a significant percentage of Americans view papering a campus with Hitler posters in direct response to the Holocaust Rememberance as hideously hateful and bigoted…and they want NO association with that kind of behavior. I am quite certain that Morty Schapiro and every member of the Williams College board would be included in that significant percentage. It’s a battle that Julia can’t win, no matter how long she stupidly rides her high horse.
It’s like Alberto Gonzales trying to argue with Arlen Spector about his preparation for Senate testimony. As Spector said, “Mr. Gonzales, it’s a a battle you can win, so I suggest we move on…”
The only thing saving Julia is the College’s sincere preference for helping her work through her issues. But, I don’t think that patience will be, or should be, unlimited in the absence of any emphathy or contrition or even recognition of stupidity. To be honest, she blew it by not offering a letter of sincere apology to be distributed with Morty’s e-mail on Monday.
April 27th, 2007 at 2:21 amIronic Justice says:
‘I’m pitying the people who find it “petty, silly, and entertaining in a trashy sort of way” to say incredibly hurtful and unfounded things about a person they never met’
I think this thread has referred to her as a ‘bad apple’ and a ‘loony’. If that qualifies as ‘incredibly hurtful’ in your world, may you never leave whatever sheltered plane of existence you currently inhabit, for you will find the outside world to be a Big, Bad place.
And as for her being a bigot or someone who did a stupid thing…well, we have at least some evidence for that, don’t we? Maybe not definitive, but enough to drag her before the court of public opinion. You go to such lengths to indicate you like Hitler, you should have some sort of compelling explanation ready…
Moreover, isn’t this behavior precisely silly, petty, and entertainingly trashy? None of it will end up having a real impact on Julia’s life…she’s in the hands of Dean Roseman now, a far more terrific (in all senses of the word) character than any of us could ever hope to be.
***
I get the feeling, though, disgusted, this isn’t a fair fight. I’d like to say I would never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man, but there’s something to be said for shooting metaphorical fish in the figurative barrel…
April 27th, 2007 at 3:49 amdoubly disgusted says:
“It is upsetting to see that people seem to feel a need to be so self-righteous at the expense of others.”
To anonymous @12:13 am: You may want to repeat and redirect that statement to your self-righteous “friend” Julia.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:53 amephmom says:
Don’t expect any apologies from Julia.
Her boyfriend has this to say today about such incomprehensible, nonsensical, fantastic, formal exercises in futility:
“When demands of conformity or validation of someone’s emotional state are required, that is beyond the realms of reality. Maybe I just don’t watch enough oprah to understand such rituals, but they seem nutty and phony to me.”
Oh, “To be a self-centered zombie…” (“Rob,” 4/23/07)
April 27th, 2007 at 5:54 amfrank uible says:
Your correspondent is disturbed by the ignoble ripping and tearing arising out of the schooling caused by Julia’s “blood in the water”.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:55 amJeff Z. says:
It’s as simple as this, Rob and Julia: you reap what you sew. I don’t think any action should be taken against them, unless Rob’s threats continue or escalate to the point to real threat. I agree with others that power of google is more than enough disincentive for this type of behavior to prove useful to one’s future, unless you want to form a neo-nazi sympathy band.
As for those who defend the character of either individual, consider this. Character is action. If you (a) plaster the campus with posters celebrating Adolph Hitler’s birthday, (b) mock and denegrate those who wish to commemorate the Holocaust in intentionally insensitive and inflammatory terms, (c) create a public website further publicizing your posters and refusing to consider that anything about your actions is remotely inappropriate, instead comparing the Williams administration to terrorists, (d) post to a public internet site affiliation with Nazi music, Nazi symbols, and most telling of all, a distaste for “Juden” and a preference for whites, and (e) issue idiotic threats of violence to a Jewish student who is only exercising HIS right of free speech (ironic, ehhh?), I’d say your actions speak louder than anything either defenders, or even critics, of Julia/Rob could possibly say. There are two, and only two, possibilities (because Rob and Julia are obviously intelligent people, and this pattern of conduct reflects a variety of media of expressions occurring over a long period of time): they are either sympathetic to Nazis and dislike Jews, or they are happy to act, very publically, in such a way that that is the only conclusion most reasonable people would draw. Neither speaks highly of either’s character or judgment. Hell, Imus was fired over a HELL of a lot less — one stupid comment made off the cuff, as opposed to the long list of premeditated, carefully contemplated steps outlined above. If you defend Rob and Julia by saying we just don’t know them, you also have to defend folks anyone who proudly publicizes racist beliefs — because we don’t know most of them personally either. Again, character is action.
I don’t need to know Julia or Rob to know that I would never associate with either one of them based on the sum totality of their actions. I guess I shouldn’t worry, because it is doubtful they’d care to hang out with me, being a Juden and all …
April 27th, 2007 at 7:06 amAnonymous says:
STOP this. This is ridiculous and has gotten completely out of hand. Julia put up some offensive posters, but does that justify digging into her personal life and passing judgments about whom she chooses to date, or how long she went to high school, or whether she deserves to have been accepted into Williams? I am by far more disgusted by the horrible attacks I’ve read in this blog than by Julia’s actions. And now putting up pictures of her boyfriend and labeling him as “creepy”? You don’t even know Julia or Rob! If you want to be upset by her posters, fine, you have every right to be, but back off of her personal life.
April 27th, 2007 at 8:27 amrory says:
we do not know rob and julia, but with rob’s blog and julia’s posters, they’ve become public figures in the williams scene. and what we do know is despicable and a sign of weak moral character. finding a friendster page is simple internet sleuthing. perhaps some of the words used towards those two are harsh, but look at their words and their actions. These are expressions of outrage on a blog–theirs was a poster placed on student dorms. they have called us hitler youth, zombies, threatened to attack a student, and quoted hitler.
Bigots are OFTEN very nice people. Niceness does not mean no hate. The two are not mutually exclusive, sadly.
April 27th, 2007 at 8:42 amJLev says:
Rory, how many of those things were done by Rob and how many by Julia. She has not designated him her representative, merely chosen not to publicly condemn him. Let’s keep the two somewhat separate.
April 27th, 2007 at 8:53 amAnonymous says:
Did you see the posters? Have you ever spoken to Julia? Do you even care whether or not the accusations you make are true?
“I think this thread has referred to her as a ‘bad apple’ and a ‘loony’. If that qualifies as ‘incredibly hurtful’ in your world, may you never leave whatever sheltered plane of existence you currently inhabit, for you will find the outside world to be a Big, Bad place.”
Here is what I have read “Ironic Justice” :
nutjob
Bong Hits 4 Hitler Julia
a downright anti-semetic bigot
the devil
Truly despicable
sociopath
I do find those things hurtful. As well as a disgusting discussion of whether or not she should have gotten in, and a refusal by many to even consider the possibility that this indeed was a poorly planned parody, and nothing to do with hate.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:28 amAnd Jeff Z, for the record, Julia has many Jewish friends who are standing by her.
rory says:
JLev-
She certainly could (and should) distance herself from the things her boyfriend has done. Right now, without that and considering her complicity in the original act I have no reason to believe that she disagrees with Rob’s rantings and ravings. As partners in the original act, I cannot just will myself (as much as I do want to. I love my fellow ephs) to separate the two without some sort of reason to do so. In fact, on wso, she’s actively said she won’t intervene on rob’s postings. To me, she seems like the only/best person to calm this situation down and she’s not doing so. I believe Benjamin Sykes on the wso blog hits the nail on the head.
anonymous: Julia’s intentions might have been parody. Rob’s intentions, considering what we’ve seen, does not look so innocent. Julia is not distancing herself from that. Sadly, it is her duty at this point to distance herself, not our job as observers to just sit there and do that for her. She’s placed herself in this predicament, and I hope she does the right thing.
I do find what she did despicable. I will stand by that phrasing for the rest of the incident.
Finally, the “she has jewish friends” card is a canard. Its the classic “I know black people!” defense. It doesn’t fly.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:35 amLoweeel says:
Well, rory, to be fair, the “my best friends are black” has been misinterpreted over the years. People forget that the reason it is so damning was because the “friends” typically cited were meanial laboring acquaintainces (e.g., the shoe-shine boy) rather than actual friends.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:45 am(d)avid says:
Knowing about the author can help put the posters in the proper context. Were they a failed joke, serious commentary (if so, on what?), or a little of both. After reading Julia’s statements and hearing reports of the now cleaned Friendster profiles, I am leaning towards the combination platter.
I often have sympathy for people whose personal lives become a matter of public discussion. In this instance I think Julia brought it on herself. Not just by putting up the posters, but also the inscrutable nature of the posters. If the author doesn’t lead many hints as to intent, readers will go looking for explanations.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:51 amLove Your Mother says:
I hear Hitler treated his mother nicely, too.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:52 amstoned helper says:
The posters aren’t so inscrutable when they suggest people should smoke pot and remember hitler. It’s what all the stoners are doing anyway.
April 27th, 2007 at 10:49 amJeff Z. says:
Hey anonymous poster, the fact that you have to revert to the classic “Jewish friends are standing by” routine is proof that you have nothing constructive left to say. Did you even read my post? Yes, we saw the posters, they were posted on this site. I don’t need to know her to judge her actions, just like I don’t need to personally know any number of other people who espouse racist sentiments to make a judgment about them. If personal knowledge is the standard, then the media was unjustified in attacking Michael Richards, Mel Gibson, Trent Lott, etc. etc. …
And yes, I care about whether accusations are true. Find one untrue thing I said … all I did was recite exactly what Julia and her boyfriend have made PUBLIC, and reached a more-than-fair conclusion based on that evidence. Again, it bears repeating, actions are character.
April 27th, 2007 at 11:00 amum says:
To anon 9:28am “Have you ever spoken to Julia?”
That is part of the problem, and not only from the side of Ephblog readers and commenters: many people have tried to engage Julia and she has not been very forthcoming with answers, which is part of the “she is hurting herself with her silence” argument.
April 27th, 2007 at 1:06 pmAnonymous says:
A few posts ago, I told you so. Only to be marginalized and to have my ip address plastered all over this blog…. well… I told you so.
April 27th, 2007 at 11:47 pmnot a lover of white trash says:
“Only to be marginalized”
Julia, you did a good job of doing that yourself. It’s oh-so-easy to always blame someone else. Like it’s been said here before, you have no conscience, no soul, no heart — and no brains. You may have a good vocabulary, but you know nothing about being intelligent.
April 28th, 2007 at 12:34 pmouted anon says:
Ephmom- Like I said before, this type of thing is more prevalent in our country than any of us would like to admit. Williams is not immune to prejudice and those who hold the beliefs expressed above just because it is an elite institution. The simple law of averages states that in a group of several thousand students, you are going to find several who harbor the kinds of beliefs expressed above. Normally, they do not make them known except in their own circles, but they exist.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:38 amephmom says:
outed anon: Sorry, I just saw your post. I appreciate what you wrote. I realize that, sadly, all sorts of bigotry exists in our world — but one of the reasons people choose Williams is to be in that “purple bubble” where, hopefully, lots of personal growth can take place without having to worry about/be threatened (or so needlessly confronted) by that kind of dark hatred. The type of irrational thinking represented by MJH & Company has me as a parent worried about the safety of my Eph. That’s why I still don’t believe the administration has done enough to make me feel confident that, with two such (publicly) loose cannons around, the safety of all the other students is completely assured. On the other hand, the incident with the bombmakers is something totally different — the only people they threatened were themselves, and they were considerate enough to try to carry out their foolishness far from the rest of the students.
May 1st, 2007 at 5:11 amThe feeling I get from Julia and Rob is one of evil; I don’t think I’m alone on that. I get no such feeling from the three freshmen boys. Thanks again for the warning about something I just didn’t want to see.
(Even though you say you’re “outed,” I have no idea who you are.)