Currently browsing posts filed under "Tips"
A Morris County family can spend thousands of dollars a year having a child play and excel in a sport. There’s the fee to be on a club team, the extras for trips, the costs of summer camps and trainers.
So what’s another couple thousand if it can secure a college scholarship? That’s how Dan Greco of National Scouting Report and Linda Brower of College Sports Consulting sell their consulting services to parents.
Brower, based in Mendham, would not disclose her fees, but said she’s less costly than the $10,000 some parents will spend on SAT preparation and essay-writing coaching. She is the founder and president of her company.
Brower, who began her private consulting company in 2005, said she teaches techniques to create buzz about a student athlete and get and keep a coach’s attention. She prepares them for both their written and oral presentations to coaches, she said. A coach can be instrumental in guiding a student through the admissions and financial aid process, she said.
Michael Lomio of East Hanover said he didn’t know how to go about helping his son, a Hanover Park High School wrestler, get noticed by college coaches.
On the advice of his high school coach, he contacted Greco. His son, Michael, is now committed to attending a competitive liberal arts school next fall — Williams College in Massachusetts. He got a financial aid package and will be wrestling for the Division III college.
“I think the money was well spent,” said Lomio, who said he paid $1,500 on the package over three years. “If it helps you get into a better school, it’s well worth it. People spend all kinds of money on wrestling camps, private lessons, SAT prep and tutors.”
Lomio’s son was recruited by Princeton, the University of Chicago and the University of Pennsylvania, all of which Lomio believes would not have happened if not for Greco. His son had good SAT scores and grades and was among the top 12 in the state as a junior, he said.
They started working with Greco in his sophomore year and began to get e-mails from coaches at the start of his junior year, he said.
In the end, Lomio chose Williams because it offered the best financial aid package and because it was the best fit. The younger Lomio decided he didn’t want the pressure of a wrestling for a Division I team.
“It certainly did work out for us, and I would recommend it,” Lomio said.
Would you recommend that other prospective Williams students pay $1,500 to College Sports Consulting?
Who invented “tips,” the process of allocating a certain number of spots in a class to athletes and then involving coaches in the process of selection? According to Reclaiming the Game, it was former Williams Athletic Director Bob Peck. (Click to enlarge.)
Source here. Again, there is a great senior thesis or independent study to be written about the history of athletic admissions at elite colleges.
Some of the most useful and interesting reading on EphBlog comes in our comment threads.
Someone in the string asked what would happen to women’s tennis if it was less competitive–ie. highly competitive players? Ours wouldn’t have come to Williams–would have gone D1–Ivy most likely. As would at least one other player in her class–I’m confident predicting that the vast majority of great players would opt for the Ivies–where the tennis and academics are comparable. What Williams offers to the student athlete is really special; especially in women’s athletics. A smaller, D3 athletic environment and intimate liberal arts experience. If you want to ‘change’ the system you’re going to have to think well beyond NESCAC or D3 for that matter.
The roster has had no add/drops beyond DL players and JYA’s that we know of. There are intramural tennis opportunities for people who just want to get out and play–you don’t need to travel or be on a formal team to do that at Williams. To be frank if I were a student at Williams the training and practice schedule (forget the travel schedule) for the team is just too much to justify if it wasn’t necessary to get good matches.
Finally, the way the athletic recruiting works–is that the coaches tell players they have to apply early decision–for players this is the worst since you can only apply one place. When you are playing a sport at that level and told that this one decision is the difference between being able to compete in college or not–well let’s just say it is easily the most stressful decision some of these kids have ever had to make. This apply early policy was the situation with EVERY school–Ivies, big D1’s etc. Many players look to coaches and admissions for ‘likelihood’ of admission prior to the formal submission of the application. If you don’t meet the standards you’ve got a serious problem–we’ve encouraged some amazing players to look at Williams–one will be at Yale next year. She couldn’t get by Williams admissions.
1) Thanks to “Eph Pride” for the inside scoop. Do we have other readers knowledgeable about athletic recruiting at Williams? If so, give us your perspective — the more detailed, the better.
2) I have no way of knowing if Eph Pride is actually the parent of a female Williams tennis player. This is the internet and we allow anonymous comments. But, everything above is consistent with what I have heard in the past. So, I think this is accurate information.
3) Rory has pointed out (correctly) that affirmative action matters both for the students who need that boost to get into Williams and for the students who don’t need that boost (i.e., the ones that we most want) but who wouldn’t choose Williams if there weren’t enough URMs. The same applies in athletics. The anti-tip folks (like me) think that getting rid of tips would not influence the decision-making of academic rating 1 and 2 athletes, i.e., the ones that are accepted to Williams without preferences. But what if it did? What if a lack of tips (and the resulting lack of team success) would cause these students to go elsewhere? I don’t worry too much about this in either case, but it is a legitimate concern.
4) I don’t know what “DL” or “JYA” refer to. Perhaps Eph Pride could clarify? I am curious about how the team is put together initially, on the very first days of fall practice. Coach Swain has, obviously, been in touch with some (all?) new players during the admissions process. But do some walk-ons show up? What happens to them? How many spots are there on the team? I would have thought that there were more than 11 women (out of 1,000) who would like to play tennis for Williams, but perhaps cuts are only really an issue on men’s teams.
Nice article about lacrosse goalie Michael Gerbush ’09. Read the whole thing but note this section on admissions.
Lacking prep success and with a 5-foot-8 frame, Gerbush didn’t get a lot of attention on the recruiting trail. But McCormack received a tip that there was a kid on the Island who was taking his lumps, but could contribute at the collegiate level. The fact that he could get into Williams on his academics alone certainly did not hurt.
“I got a phone call from a coach who said there is a really good goalie. If you saw him in person, you might not think much of him because he’s a little guy, but you should take a look at him,” said McCormack. “So he didn’t come in with a lot of [hype], but once he got here, we were really impressed with him. And we certainly felt as though, with his consistency and demeanor of being calm and cool regardless of the situation, he was someone who could lead us to more victories than losses.”
1) Smart observers do not trust completely a coach’s claim about who could have gotten into Williams on “academics alone,” but, with a double major in computer science and physics, it is almost impossible to believe that Gerbush is a “tip” or even a “protect.” (Useful background on terminology in this thread.)
2) Note the second order effects that Morty’s increase in admissions standards for athletes has on the process. In the old days, the unnamed high school coach might never have mentioned Gerbush to men’s lacrosse coach George McCormack. Why bother when McCormack is just going to use his large number of tips and extensive leeway to just find the best possible goalie, without worrying too much about high school academics? But McCormack no longer has as much freedom as he did in the pre-Morty era. He has fewer tips/protects and the standards for them are higher. So, he is desperate to find at least a few players who don’t require admissions help. The tipster knows this (and, I assume that McCormack tells everyone what he is looking for, like any good college coach) and so mentions Gerbush. Presto! Williams now has one more varsity athlete with academic credentials in the mainstream of the rest of the student body.
3) Note, again, how former baseball coach Dave Barnard predicted that high profile mens sports like lacrosse would never win another NESCAC championship because of the rise in admissions standards. Turns out, he was wrong. Baseball, basketball and lacrosse have all won championships in an era when their athletes include more students like Gerbush and fewer (what is the polite term?) lunkheads. Good stuff! It is still unclear (to me) why this is happening. Isn’t it almost tautological to predict that, if Morty raises admissions standards for Williams athletes, then Williams sports teams will do less well? And, yet, that does not seem to have happened.
Possible explanations: First, it could be that other schools have raised their standards as well. (Contrary opinion on the “Nesbitt Net” here.) Second, this could just be some random luck. Third, it could be that Williams coaches are not that good at identifying athletic talent, at least within narrow bounds. So, back in the day, Coach McCormack looked at a few goalies and picked the one that he thought best, even if that goalie had suspect academics (or, at least, what Morty would consider suspect academics). Now, McCormack is “stuck” with someone like Gerbush, but, it turns out, Gerbush is just about as good as the lunkhead that McCormack would have picked if Morty had not raised the standards. Fourth, it could be that the sort of second-order effects that have brought applicants like Gerbush to Williams (when, in the pre-Morty era, coaches weren’t even aware of them) have allowed Williams to maintain its athletic standards, on average, while raising the academic profile of its athletes.
Your thoughts? And, yes, there is a great senior thesis to be written on this topic.
Morty took great pride in claiming that athletic admission were very different now then when he started 8 years ago. This was clearly a great success, in his mind. I agree. He offered few details, but see our previous discussions. If Williams still had the same process in place today that it hard 10 years ago, at least 10% of the class we actually have would be replaced with dumber (perhaps) athletically more gifted students with lower academic rankings. You can claim that Morty has gone too far. You can claim that he hasn’t done enough. But there is no doubt that he has made major changes, that the Williams student body is significantly different than what it would have been if Morty had not become President.
A reader asks:
Yes, I saw this story in the Times but it is tough to discern a direct Williams connection. One certainly hears rumors that, say, the Amherst mens basketball team is not filled with Phi Beta Kappas, but the same sort of complaints were voiced about the Ephs five years ago.
Yet this is a problem that I have a simple solution for: Make public the average SAT scores and college grades for the team as a whole, weighted both equally and by playing time. This makes it fairly clear who is cheating and by how much.
This Chronicle of Education article from 6 years ago allows us to review the history of “tips” — significant admissions preferences for athletic excellence — and speculate on the future. Previous discussion here. Join us below.
Jeff Zeeman ’97 highlighted these two articles in a recent thread, but they both deserve their own post.
A story on Williams wrestling.
It’s only a formality now. Georgetown’s Ryan Malo will be continuing the St. John’s Prep connection at Williams College.
Malo, the 2007 New England champion with a perfect 58-0 record, began the year on scholarship at Boston University. But, after splitting 10 matches, he withdrew from school because he did not enjoy living in the city.
While taking classes at Northern Essex Community College for the last month, Malo has been mulling a transfer. Although he briefly considered Wesleyan and other schools, Williams was always the frontrunner and it looks like it will be his destination.
“It looks pretty good — I just have to wait for my official letter (of acceptance),” said Malo. “It’s a great school and having kids I know so well there just makes it better.”
Somehow I think that most transfer applications from BU, much less from Northern Essex Community College, are not so successful.
Despite Williams policy on tips, Dave Fehr asks “Will the Ephs ever catch the Jeffs?”
The last several weeks have convinced me that the men’s basketball teams of Williams and Amherst are miles apart – and I’m not talking about the 65 miles along Route 116 that separate the two towns. The Jeffs are 18-2 (as of Feb. 4), ranked second in the country and are, I believe, destined to return to Salem to defend the national championship they won last March.
The Ephs, meanwhile, started 12-0 but are finding it difficult to win in their league and have dropped a total of five games at this writing, including two to Amherst.
So, of course, I’m convinced the sky is falling and I’ll never again see these two teams competitive, much less Williams competitive on a national level. The only flaw in this analysis is that I felt the same way a decade ago and was happily proved wrong. When the Mike Nogelo Final Four teams of ’97 and ’98 graduated, I figured that was it for Williams and any further NCAA hoops glory. A short five years later, the Ephs were national champs, and they almost repeated in 2004.
One thing has changed, however, as back then there was no Nesbitt Net, which is director of Admissions Dick Nesbitt’s and President Morty Schapiro’s increasingly fine-meshed screen that weeds out applicants, including star athletes, with “low” board scores.
Wonder what the academic credentials of the Amherst mens basketball team are . . .
The rest of both articles is below.
David- Were you an Athlete in College? A lot of your posts suggest to me that you think sports is given too much emphasis when it comes to getting into Williams? I am just wondering.
1) Whether or not I was an athlete at Williams is fairly irrelevant to this issue. I was.
2) I am pro-athlete but anti-tip, or at least anti the current amount of emphasis on athletics in admissions at Williams. In other words, I think that Williams should place a lot of emphasis on athletics. If anything, I would like to see more done for Eph athletes.
For example, there ought to be a freshmen soccer team. Many male (and female?) Ephs come to Williams loving to play soccer but not skilled enough for either the varsity or JV teams. Such Ephs should have another option, at least for freshman year, a way to wear the purple and gold for the school they love. Even if this were a casual team, coached by a senior, with only a handful of games against local high schools, it would still be a wonderful experience for the Eph athletes involved. Williams should provide that experience. The same goes for JV baseball, freshman basketball and any other sports with enough interest.
3) But, even though I want more done for Ephs who are athletes, I would like to see less emphasis placed on athletics in admission. This has already come to pass in the 6 years since the Report on Varsity Athletics. There are many fewer athletes admitted to Williams with sub-1200 SAT scores than there used to be. Some folks, like former baseball coach Dave Barnard (and even I), predicted (and here) that Williams would no longer be able to compete, at least in the elite men’s sports which have often needed admissions help in the past. Fortunately, that prediction turned out wrong.
If Williams, even with more stringent admissions, can still win the Directors Cup, have football go undefeated and win NESCAC championships in basketball and baseball, there is no reason to think that we need more emphasis on athletics. If anything, I would like to see (and I expect Morty to take) another step in the opposite direction. Right now, there are Academic Rank 4 and 5 athletes who are admitted while AR 1 students, especially foreigners, are rejected. That ought to change, at least on the margin. I bet that it will.
I am pro-athlete and anti-tip.
Was it only a year ago that I wrote this after Williams lost the first two football games of the season?
Lest the members of the Quarterback Club start to complain that Coach Whalen is not doing as well as legendary coach Dick Farley, it should be noted that this is only the beginning of the era of fewer tips, especially of the “low-band” type that the football team thrived on. The reason that Williams football did so much better in the 1990′s then it will going forward is not that Farley is a much better coach than Whalen (although he might be). The key fact is that Williams used to let in a lot of big, fast guys with sub-1200 SATs who knew how to play. Without that admissions advantage, Williams football will not do nearly as well.
Williams is now 7-0, having not lost a single game since I made that prediction. Tomorrow, they go for a perfect season against Amherst. Good luck!
But, having enjoyed my crow, I have to ask: What the heck is going on? How can Williams significantly tighten admissions standards for football players (don’t forget that this year’s set of football tips had an average SAT of over 1400) and still win so many games?
1) Whalen is a genius coach who can do more with less. Most other coaches would be losing lots more games. [I have heard no evidence of this.]
2) All the other schools have tightened eligibility to a similar degree. [This has happened to some extent, with both Amherst and Wesleyan joining Williams in going to 66 tips, but I haven't read that significant changes have been made across NESCAC.]
3) Football recruiting is hard (or our football recruiters are not so good). You may think that applicant A with 1200 SATs is a much better linebacker than applicant B with 1400 SATs. In the old days, Williams would accept A and reject B. (We only need so many linebackers.) But, it turns out that B was every bit as good as A so, when the College prevented you from accepting A, you haven’t really lost out.
4) Williams football’s yield is up significantly. We used to lose a lot of good players to Ivy League teams. The College now does a better of job of convincing those kids that starring at Williams is better than playing back-up at Yale.
5) The last 13 games have been a fluke. More losses are inevitable.
I really don’t know what the answer is. Informed commentary welcome.
Baseball Coach Dave Barnard writes on the need for an academic index for NESCAC.
In Support of an NESCAC Academic Index for Athletes
by Dave Barnard, Head Baseball/Ast. Football Coach, Williams College
It has been 2 years since Williams College was won a NESCAC championship or even a NESCAC playoff game in a men’s American team sport (football, basketball, baseball, hockey and lacrosse).
Since it seems clear that we are not going to put the Jeannie back in the bottle in terms of admitting 7′s as athletic tips (SAT scores of 1150-1250), Williams should be leading the effort to adopt a league-wide academic index (minimum standards based on each school’s median SAT scores) and a NESCAC enforcement mechanism just as Harvard, Yale and Princeton did when Penn rattled off several consecutive Ivy League football championships in the 1980′s with kids who could not get into any other Ivy league school.
It has now gotten to the point where Williams has very little academic overlap with any other school in the league except Amherst in those sports (Amherst will go lower than us for an impact player and has admitted to taking 75 priority listed athletes for 6 fewer sports than Williams). We have no players with less than 1250 SAT’s and all other NESCAC schools except Amherst have no significant starters with SAT’s over 1250. Since the pool of players is much larger at the lower SAT levels (there might also be an inverse correlation between SAT scores and ability to play men’s American team sports) it stands to reason that the schools that take the lower academic kids have the best players and thus the best teams.
I don’t think it’s fair to our male team sport student-athletes to put them into situations where they are at a competitive disadvantage within the league.
When an academic index has been brought up by Williams coaches internally or by Williams athletic administrators at league meetings we immediately hear opposition from the biggest offenders of the two standard deviation rule, schools who not coincidentally don’t require SAT scores. “How can we have an academic index when we don’t require SAT scores?” is the standard retort. Of course, the main reason those schools don’t require SAT scores is so they can admit players who wouldn’t otherwise academically qualify.
Rules without enforcement are meaningless, evidence the 14 slot rule in football and the 66 NESCAC athletic priority admit agreement. Amherst had 28 freshmen football players on their roster last year. At this point I don’t think that the other NESCAC schools even pretend to adhere to 66 athletic priority admits.
Several years ago in a position paper entitled “It’s All About Who Gets In,” I predicted that if Williams unilaterally reduced athletic priority slots while eliminating low band admits it would “simply be a matter of time before our teams are significantly less competitive.” That statement has certainly come to fruition for the men’s American team sports. If we don’t push for league-wide minimum SAT standards and enforcement of those parameters I don’t see how that situation is going to change.
UPDATE: First draft contained a mistake with regard to the number of years since a NESCAC championship. It is 2, not 3. Thanks to Rory for pointing this out and to Barnard for the correction. See comment thread for full details.
My comments below:
There is a fun discussion about athletics going on at WSO. Good points made all around. One comment surprised me. Nicholas Fersen ’08 claimed:
Just a little sidenote to add to this conversation. Next year’s incoming tips for the football team have an SAT average of 1405. So the argument that tips are getting into Williams with low academic standards is somewhere between absurd and down right insane. Maybe the Record staff should do their homework before attacking athletes as the cause of all problems at Williams.
Really? Now Fersen plays linebacker, so we can assume that he has good sources on this topic. But 1405 (I am assuming this is math + verbal) would be a shockingly high average for the football tips for the class of 2010.
Why is this “too” high? Don’t forget that the average SATs at Williams is around 1420. The bottom quartile starts at 1340 or so. Traditionally, it has been the case that this bottom quartile is dominated by two broad categories of students: tipped athletes and under-represented minorities. (There might also be some very poor students and some donor children in this area, but their numbers are small.)
If football tips are no longer in the bottom quartile, who is?
I suspect that Fersen might be (unintentionally) wrong. Note that there are many (25? 40?) men in the class of 2010 who played football in high school. (Recall Dick Nesbitt’s description (here and here) of the pool.) Some of these are “tips,” meaning that the football coach highlighted them as high impact players who would not have gotten into Williams if they were on the coach’s list. Some of these are “protects”, meaning students with Williams-caliber academics who might or might not have gotten in without football talent. The rest might try out for the team and might even make it, but they would have been accepted to Williams even without football.
I think that there are around 14 tips for football and 7 protects. There might also be another 10 or 20 football players who are most likely to end up on the rugby team.
I find it surpising that the average for the 14 football tips is 1405. The average for tips and protects might be 1405. The average for every incoming student who played football in high school could easily be 1405.
Recall Nesbitt’s report that the 66 tips had an average SAT score that was 100 points lower than the class as a whole. If the 14 football tips are only 20 points lower, than it is hard to believe that this difference still holds true.
Is Fersen really talking about just the 14 tips? I’ll e-mail him and ask.
UPDATE: Fersen confirmed that the 1405 average referred to the 14 football tips in the class of 2010. Interesting. This would suggest that the 66 tips as a group are much closer than 100 points to the overall average. (I can’t imagine why admissions would have lower standards for others sports.) This also suggests that we will see a non-trivial boost in the overall SAT average at Williams, assuming that other policies (like preferences for poorer students) haven’t changed significantly.
It is all about the coach’s list.
Haverford, a small, selective liberal arts college outside Philadelphia, competes in Division III, which prohibits athletic scholarships. But at many Division III institutions, including most of the nation’s small-college academic elite, athletes can measurably enhance their chances of acceptance by being included on a coach’s list for the admissions office.
The anxiety was laced with another dynamic: [lacrosse coach] Murphy was trying to figure out where Haverford ranked on each prospect’s list of colleges. He does not want to place a player near the top of his admissions list of about 15 if he believes a player’s top choices are Ivy League universities or Division III rivals like Swarthmore or Williams.
It would be great if the Record wrote some similar articles about Williams.
“It hurts my credibility with admissions if I push and scream for a kid to be admitted who ends up rejecting us,” Murphy said. “You want someone who wants you. Of course, the kids are saying the same thing about the coaches.”
This problem is solved to a big extent at Williams by funnelling tips through the early decision process. (Letters were mailed last week.) I think that many (most? almost all?) of the 66 tips are expected to apply early decision.
“My cellphone has 14 coaches’ numbers in the directory,” Bartlett said. “It’s fun, but it can be overwhelming. At times, I felt I could drown in it. The conversations with the coaches have been like something out of diplomacy training.”
Read the whole thing.
The New York Times ran an article today entitled, “In Recruiting, a Big Push From Small Colleges, Too.” It describes how small colleges recruit athletes, using Haverford as an example.
Amy Bergin, Haverford’s volleyball coach, makes some interesting observations:
“Of 1,000 I’ve contacted, about half will reply,” Bergin said. “About half that reply will be academically qualified. About half of them will be truly interested in Haverford. About half of them will be actually good enough to play volleyball for us. About half of that group will apply for admission. About half of them will get accepted. And about half of them will decide to come here. If that happens, that’s a really good year. That’s almost eight girls.”
“There are the girls who say, ‘Well, I’m a Division I talent,’ ” Bergin said. “And I think, ‘Forget it.’ I don’t need the attitude. I’ve got to spend four years with these girls. I cross girls off my list all the time because I think they’ll be high maintenance.”
Mike Murphy, the men’s lacrosse coach, offers some thoughts on working with Admissions:
The high school goalie Murphy is welcoming to the Haverford campus is Kevin Friedenberg of Needham, Mass. Murphy has scouted Friedenberg twice. Seconds after shaking Murphy’s hand at the student center, Friedenberg hands over his transcript, which Murphy scans in seconds and offers immediate advice.
He wants Friedenberg to take as many Advanced Placement courses as he can in his senior year. “You’re a good student, but that’s the first thing that admissions will ask about,” Murphy said.
“When recruiting at this level, if you don’t take your cues from the people at admissions and use it to guide the prospects on their academic record, you’re just crazy,” Murphy said. “That’s probably as important as identifying athletic talent.”
He sums up by noting:
“You start this process knowing of hundreds of kids you think you might want to play for you,” he said. “But you know that only a few will actually be on the field at your first practice. And none of them will be on scholarship and all of them can walk away at any time. They can just quit. So you better have made your choices carefully, and they better have come for the right reasons.”
While I’m sure Williams’ practices differ in some way from Haverford’s, they’re certainly a lot closer to Haverford’s than, say, Ohio State.
On a side note, for folks interested in better understanding Williams’ admissions processes (admittedly by proxy), I highly recommend The Gatekeepers, by Jacques Steinberg. It follows the admissions process at Wesleyan over the course of a year (1999).
Did you hear? Williams is really good at sports. The Ad Hoc Faculty Committee on Athletics was formed at the behest of President Morton Schapiro to explore the status of athletics at the college. A part summary, part discussion of their report follows.
Varsity athletics have a profound impact on Williams College — even moreso than at Division I colleges, because there only 5% of the student body is composed of varsity athletes, and here 30% of students are varsity athletes. Over half of Williams students say that their status as an athlete or a non-athlete defines them at Williams, and 70% of students believe that athletics are significant or dominant in organizing social life — a feeling that is much more pronounced among students that are not varsity athletes. Only 30% of students feel that varsity athletics enhances the educational mission of the College.
This is the last installment of comments from Director of Admissions Dick Nesbitt ’74 on the general topic of tips.
As for the comparison with music, here’s a reality check: We are able to admit roughly 120 top rated musicians each year from the top of the academic reader rating scale–what we refer to as academic 1′ and 2′s (broadly defined as 1500+ SAT’s and very top of the class). By contrast, how many decent football players do you think are among the academic 1′s and 2′s? A couple of years ago, I checked. There were exactly 9 applicants in that academic range who had played 2 years of varsity football and wanted to continue in college (we’re not even talking about rated athletes here, just those who had an interest). We admitted 7 of them, and 2 matriculated. Both played for one year, then quit.
Here’s another difference between music and sports: If the Berkshire Symphony is lacking players, they simply hire professionals. There have been years when up to 70% of the symphony have been hired guns. I happy to report that the majority of the BSO now is students and the percentage grows each year (as does the quality of the orchestra, ironically).
Kudos to Nesbitt for taking the time and trouble to explain things to EphBlog. As in most things, the more open and honest that the College is about controversial issues, the better it appears. The more that I have found out about the whole tip phenomenon, the less concerned that I have become.
Indeed, having read the College’s Report on the topic along with Dave Barnard’s thoughts, I can’t help but conclude that there is no evidence that there are any problems with “tips” per se. Certainly, there is no evidence of any ill-effects from female tips. Nor does there seem to be much evidence against the practice of male tips in most sports.
There may be a case to be made against tips — or at least “low band” tips — for certain male sports, but even that is an open question in my mind.
I have been looking for more data on the tips debate. Director of Admissions Dick Nesbitt ’74 was kind enough to both reply to my e-mails on the topic and to allow me to reprint his comments here.
In response to your query about athletic tips, her are some things to keep in mind:
We have significantly reduced the number of tips from 75-80 in the late 80′s and 90′s to 66, beginning with the class of 2004.
Football has been most significantly cut back from a yearly average of 19-20 matriculated tips (in the 80′s and 90′s) to 14. This is the lowest of any NESCAC school, and compares with 25 per year at Ivy League schools.
While we have been reducing the number of tips, we have also reduced the number of “low band” tips by 50% over the number enrolling just five years ago.
While we do not normally give out SAT averages for any specific group, figure on about a 100 point differential [combined] for the 66 tips. That would make the average for the tips about 20 points higher than the average for the entire class of ’88 ;)
1) Many thanks to Nesbitt for taking the time to reply and giving me permission to publish his comments here. Virtually everyone at the College that I ask questions of — from Morty on down — is helpful and forthcoming. Many lesser colleges are not run but such open and honest folks. [Toady! -- ed. I call them like I see them.]
2) I have been extremely anti-tip and pro-athletics throughout this discussion. I am much less anti-tip than I once was. I had, mistakenly, thought that tips were significantly different from the rest of the student population in their academic competence. But a 100 point difference on combined SAT scores just isn’t that important.
3) Moreover, all the changes that the College has made in the last few years — especially the decrease in low band tips — are ones that I agree with. To me at least, the College’s current admissions policy seems perfectly reasonable. I could even be pursuaded to be in favor of the changes advocated by Dave Barnard.
4) Nesbitt is, as his punctuation makes clear, somewhat joking in his reference to average SAT scores for the class of 1988. Since the SAT was rescaled a few years ago, you can’t compare scores from before and after easily. Back in the 1980′s, the recurring joke for senior classes was that, since Williams admissions were more competitive each year, the senior class was always the dumbest on campus. It would be really interesting to see some good time series data on this trendline. For example, has the difference between the median SAT at Williams and at places like Harvard/Yale/Princeton really been decreasing over the last 20 years? I don’t know.
When I saw Morty speak in New Haven, he said that the question he is asked about most by alumni is the emphasis on athletics at Williams. Sure enough, Morty was asked a few questions about athletics despite his preemptory oratory. Seemingly, alumni are ambivalent about winning 7 of 8 Sears Cups: while they are proud of the accomplishment, they are worried about the effect athletics has on the campus culture. I think a couple of common arguments need to be addressed:
#1: Tipped athletes are less academically able. I don’t think this is really a matter of debate. If a coach has a limited number of tips, why spend it on an athlete whose academics are strong enough to ensure admission? Why not use the tip on an athlete whose academic credentials are significantly weaker? Coaches aren’t stupid and put their tips to best use.
#2: Tipped athletes change the culture of the campus. Again, I’m not sure there can be much serious debate about this topic. While I met some extremely smart athletes at Williams, would anyone seriously argue that the hockey team is a bastion of learned discourse? If you were forced to categorize the football team as intellectual or anti-intellectual, which of the two categories would you choose? Many of the tipped athletes know they were admitted despite questionable academic credentials and adopt the identity of a dumb jock. [Note: In my entry, the football, hockey, and basketball player got into an argument as to whose SAT scores were lowest -- it wasn't clear whether the winner had the high or low score.] This anti-intellectual culture spreads through the team and the athletes’ social circles making the culture more pervasive. At my reunion, I was struck by the degree to which our class was bifurcated: athletes on one side of the room and non-athletes on the other.
#3: Tips are necessary to maintain the quality of the sports teams. Anyone who argues otherwise is seriously underestimating the skill of the athletes at Williams. Dartmouth is considered the jock school of the Ivies, but they routinely lose to Princeton and UPenn teams that admit better athletes (with questionable academic resumes). Trinity and Connecticut College have lower admission standards than Williams and routinely lose to the Ephs. Sure, Williams has good coaching, but good athletes are a must (unless you are Jerry Sloan — but even he missed the playoffs this year).
I think these three “facts” can be used to construct three models/archetypes for elite liberal arts colleges. I’ll attach a name to each model, but the name is intended to be impressionistic. The goal is to illustrate what Williams might look like under different admission regimes, not seriously compare different schools.
There are a couple of plausible arguments for large investments in sports at large universities:
1) Alumni donations;
2) Free advertising.
[Note: People sometimes offer the argument that sports pay for themselves, but athletic departments generate revenue in very few universities.]
Do these arguments apply to NESCAC type schools? To get a quick read on this question, I created a small dataset. The observations are NESCAC member schools plus Swarthmore, Carleton, and Pomona (the broader peers of Williams). I coded the 2000 endowment for each school, the number of hits I got in Google when I typed the school name, the US News & World Report 2004 Ranking, and the average Sears Cup performance over the past four years. [Note: Tufts is listed by US News as a University, so the ranking is not meaningful.] You can see the dataset by clicking the link here.
In answer to the endowment question, there does not appear to be any systematic relationship between Sears Cup performance and endowment size. So, it is unlikely that Alumni give money to Williams based on the performance of sports teams.
However, one does find evidence that the US News Ranking and Endowment are correlated. I take this to mean that schools with large endowments can hire the quantity of faculty and build the lush campuses that do well in the ever changing US News formula. That is, large endowments cause high rankings. However, one shouldn’t be so quick to discount the converse. I bet alumni would rather see #1 in US News than a #1 in the Sears Cup despite the fact that the latter is an objective and the former is a subjective measure.
Well, what about advertising? Here the story is mixed. The best advertising for a liberal arts college is the US News ranking, but there is no relationship between the ranking and Sears Cup performance (which isn’t surprising since we already know the formula US News uses does not count sports victories). However, there does appear to be a little evidence that sports does serve as advertising when looking at the Google Hits. Williams and Amherst receive more hits than Swarthmore, Pomona, and Carleton who are comparably ranked schools. History and tradition play a role, but sports might be in the mix as well. Middlebury offers slight confirmation for this argument.
However, the two NESCAC schools with the largest number of Google hits are Tufts and Wesleyan. Both schools are Universities with graduate programs. Perhaps adding academic programs is a better way for a small college to generate press than winning the Sears Cup. Winning an obscure award may not generate the amount of press that a good graduate program can (which publishes papers, receives grants, holds symposiums, etc.). Of course, it could be that a graduate program simply generates web pages or fails to advertise to high school students.
I wouldn’t put any stock in a dataset of 14 schools, but the quick glance suggests that Division III schools do not gain much revenue or advertising from top flight sports teams.
If “tips” are students that would not have been accepted to Williams were it not for their athletic ability, we need a term for students who were accepted to Williams because of their academic ability but whose athletic experience at Williams was negatively impacted by the tip system. Perhaps “tip-offs” or “untips” or . . .
Whatever you call these individuals, Nate Foster ’01 was one:
I think you hit the nail on the head with your last blog post on tips.
I was a decent, though by no means outstanding, baseball player at my high school and captained the team my senior year. Many of my teammates went on to play at small colleges. So when I showed up at Williams, I thought I might be able to “walk on” to the baseball team, even though Barnard didn’t know anything about me. There were a few of first years (3-4?) in the same position.
Barnard ostensibly gave us a fair shot at making the team, but it soon became clear that in his mind, we were fighting for the last 1-2 spots on a 26-man Florida roster (it’s 32 now?). After a few months of training where it was clear that even if we did make the team, we would probably never play in our 4 years with the number of people who were being tipped/recruited, all of us quit.
I like to think that I could have played baseball at the DIII level. And I feel ashamed to have bailed out before finding out for sure if I could have made the team and/or played. But at the same time, like you, I wonder why we need to have a baseball team that dominates NESCAC when there are people who get into Williams without tips and with whom we could field a competitive baseball team. All of this about needing tips to keep the balance of culture at Williams and prevent us from becoming Swarthmore is total crap (and, given Sam Crane’s recent comments about the intellectual culture at Williams, becoming more like Swarthmore might not be a bad thing!) We could certainly field competitive (if not dominant) teams without using so many, if any, tips.
What he said.
But why do we admit people who are good at sports? Wouldn’t it be better to let our brilliant “academic admits” fill up all those varsity rosters and benefit from the experiences? Absolutely… if that’s what they were good at.
I guess it all depends on what you mean by “good.” I don’t see Cass, or any other defender of tips, squarely confronting one of the most important — and immutable — aspects of athletics at Williams: there are only so many spots on a given team, there are only so many minutes of playing time to go around.
How would Cass feel about tips if he hadn’t made the baseball team, if all the wonderful experiences that he correctly ascribes to varsity athletics at Williams were not available to him?
There are people like that out there of course. Cass might even know their names. Baseball coach Dave Barnard certainly does. There are 32 spots on the baseball roster. What about the 33rd, 34th, and 35th best baseball players at Williams? Where are they now?
Answer: They didn’t make the team. They were cut. They, presumably, were not tips and got into Williams without reference to their speed on the bases. They don’t get to go to Florida with the team. They don’t get to play Amherst. They don’t get to talk about varsity athletics at their job interviews. They never wear the purple.
How would Cass feel if he were in their shoes? How does he explain to them — good high school baseball players who love the game and who would get as much out of the experience of playing for Dave Barnard as he does— that the tips policy makes sense?
I don’t think that he can.
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